Heck, fly & wind wall/fickle winds completely neuters any martial. You can get a lot of these with a reach weapons + Dex + feat Combat Reflexes. Overhand Chop: At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls. There are no 2H reach weapons you can use with weapon finesse, thus dex based is not viable. Press J to jump to the feed. By CR 3, you'll find that individual players won't be 1-shotting things with consistency. Apparently there is he Lunge feat in the game that gives you +5 reach for -2 AC. In reality there is no "strength build vs. dex build" dichotomy, there's only an entire spectrum of possibility where failing at either end can and will get you killed. This would really leverage the charisma and would bring a lot of healing utility while still being a reasonably potent fighter. Thug 13, Two-Handed Fighter 4 would be a nice mix. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. +3 avg damage two handed weapon Pathfinder Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion, 1 50 or 10% strength bonus But he doesn't pale any other class outside of combat and he needs the bonus feats class feature for improved init (to go first and one-hit without chance to fight back). They start out with massive dps and great hit chance, they can generally one hit most things before they have a chance to fight back, and generally they make everyone else pale in comparison. Heck, one of the main reasons THF is considered such a good weapon style compared to the others is that it requires so few feats, so characters have plenty of feats to spend on the "everything else" part of the game. A single melee attack will tend to exceed or equal spells until mid game- And by then, they've plenty of ways to gain additional attacks or tricks. The Shaman Builds PDF is freshly updated for May 2017, and emailed to past purchasers. In 3.5 only one race had a Str bonus, and had two -2's to make up for it. Most particularly I see a lot of STR dumped DEX rogue builds that absolutely suck in combat from 1-3 due to very poor stat allocation (DEX>CHA>INT>CON>WIS>STR). Seems like Invulnerable Rager would be the way to do (let’s leave out Mad Dog here - pets are awesome but this post is not about that topic). to 50 STR also doesn't give anything but damage. Red: Bad, useless options, or options which are extremely situational. This weapon class offers reach and potentially the best crit profile in the game with the named 18-20x3 one. Likewise a Str based Inquisitor and a Dex based Inquisitor are equally likely to be awesome at a bajillion things apiece, in combat and out. They shouldn’t be balanced and it would be unrealistic to expect them to be so. If you want anything else, you'll dump STR and don't care. THF have it easy. And you’ll max strength anyway, so being able to skip that prerequisite doesn’t do anything for you either. 6: It is be well-written, and well organized. So I returned to Magus class, in specific the Sword Saint. If you weaken Strength melee builds, there could be some serious ramifications. So I am talking about a build using a 2H melee weapon with reach, utilizing attacks of opportunity , cleave and especially great cleave to basically do aoe damage in melee. Has anyone tried this or has an idea about how well this would work? Bumb it up to 16 14 14 10 10 10 or 16 14 14 12 12 7 for 20 PB games (which IME is the majority). I support a limited subset of Pathfinder's rules content.If you would like help with Pathfinder player options not covered here, please email me and I am happy to provide additional assistance.. RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build … And Gunslingers. The Monk class is meh because it's MAD, true, but that is also a function of the class (forcing you to invest in just about every stat without giving commensurate reward). There are some notorious haunts in different APs and scenarios that will drop the THF build in a single round. See Two-Weapon Fighting. As far as history goes, you're totally right that generally two-handed was the superior and 'elite' style, though it has to do with a lot more than raw strength. Until that time...no dice. I would never try to claim stats are more important than class. It easily does 700+ damage per round. Two handed weapons disables Spell Combat, though. To fix it you need a 2nd edtion of Pathfinder or a new 3.5 system. So I see two styles of play coming from this. But considering it's the way I found the song in the first place years ago, it's fitting. Ask Question Asked 10 years, 3 months ago. You close that gap and you might as well just pack up everything that is strength based and move along. Also note that many colored items are also links to the Paizo SRD. Strength builds aren't too good. A subreddit for all things involving Pathfinder Kingmaker made by Owlcat Games. Afaik the highest damage melee build in the game is the trip vivi. Sadly this is true. Fighting for honor, greed, loyalty, or simply the thrill of battle, you are an undisputed master of … They usually start out really good, but unless they get plenty of support as they creep towards the 2 digit levels, they will soon find themselves badly outclassed. Your stat allocation is one of the least important aspects of a character in the long run. Look at history. Add a (somehow) Keen Fauchard for that sweet 15-20/2x crit range, and you're set. Flame Warden 16/thug 1 would be very interesting actually. Except full casters. I've seen way too many barbarians run into combat at 40 ft and take the first two rounds of full attacks from the bad guys while the medium-armored people (20 ft move) are still getting there. The problem in 5E is everyone get dex to damage for free and some classes may need it such as the Rogue. Regarding rangers: Which prerequisites does this class allow you to skip? A Fauchard "Sword" Saint actually sounds very, very interesting right about now. If "dex to damage" is allowed, especially if power attack is allowed on a dex build, the str build become a joke. Use your movement to position yourself for AOO against the enemy. Builds that meet all of the criteria get three stars! Totally agree with you given your caveat. Obviously two-handed fighter with a thug dip builds itself, it's just a mirror of the above build but with a narrow focus on one weapon and is more crit focused. 5E basic rules is the best weapon system I have seen from a D&D type game along with Adventurer Conquer King (ACKs). Opportunist's Boots and enhanced Dex from Belts get you more than enough AoOs without gimping other stats. I support a limited subset of Pathfinder's rules content. I think you vastly underestimate every other character build type. I'll discount the casters entirely, but they're present, as well. If you’re looking to build your own character and you’re a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options available to you then here’s a list of the best classes with some acknowledgment given to their archetypes. https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/9vv386/help_with_6th_member/e9gdqdk/?context=8&depth=9. I expressing my opinion that it is realistic and fair. 26 STR (+8). I'm not sure you realize just how much damage a straight 2HF build does... Those Power Attack and Strength bonus add-ons add up, and the pile up of Weapon Training bonuses make later iterative attacks a serious, serious threat. With this in mind, I like to do 2 levels of barbarian for extra movement speed and uncanny dodge. I'm not sure if there is a Keen Fauchard, though. I think this is more about how two weapon fighting and sword and board (two weapon fighting in drag) are crappy. eventually, their attacker escaped because of it. Except in D&D. But I don’t think it should be just as effective to be a wiry guy using twin daggers as to a great big guy using a great sword. 3. A melee str build will have to take an aoe to get to the target. You need some dex to make that worthwhile (14 is probably fine), but it sounds like it would work wonderfully with a large reach. Its complete with the ultimate Shaman Archer, Summoner, and Hexer. Barbarian/Invulnerable Rager would work well with this and lethal stance + whatever that rage power is that gives you a bonus to confirm criticals. I really can't recollect a straight two weapon fighter doing well in those dpr olympics or such, or seeing an interesting build using it. For fun I also picked up Cornugon Smash + Intimidating Prowess; I was going to splash Thug but now that Cleave has been fixed IIUC I might feat swap to Cleave + Gt Cleave. One handed weapons deal 1d6 damage, two handed 1d10 while dual wielding grants a +1 bonus to attack. The other forms are only in shouting distance of strength based due to customer demand rather than all these cries of realism or balance. Later on is a different beast of course, but if you count correct item purchases as 'allocation', the problem becomes even more pronounced. Flying and swimming foes are impossible for these builds, and monsters with reach and combat reflexes are pretty are fairly effective, too. Why do mention the Flame Warden exactly? Mutagen buffs stack with everything so you can get super high strength. The change to the battle field was drastic and immediate, with the rogue wizard out of the picture, and the bloodrager suddenly a liability, the party had to change how they approached the fight. In my head, I see him as the last barbarian of a dead Kellid tribe traveling with the last Mastodon of his tribe. If you think STR builds are too good when it comes to damage, wait until you see a mid-level archer fighter, monk, or ranger. Also true of damage builds in general. When he failed his save he took the 5'foot step and launched a full claw/claw/bite on him and dropped him to -1 (would have been worse but he missed one attack and rolled poor damage on another). I've played and DMed a decent amount, I've noticed that characters pump strength and grab a two-hand weapon seem to have minimum issues in games, or at least few in comparison to other characters. You’ll have higher survivability than a rogue, lower max damage but more consistent damage and not so much trouble against enemies that are sneak/crit immune, although you might want to focus on widening your crit range so it will still hurt you a bit. Other builds aren't good enough. It seems like a good middle ground between rogue/thug and fighter as you’ll be able to get high damage spikes against tough foes without being useless against crit/sneak immune ones. That was with core rules only as I do not allow things like piranha strike or whatever it is into the game. But even these things aren't that big of a deal because if I'm serious about getting initiative I'm going cleric, kensai, or something that can say "my die roll is 20". This causes all sorts of fun problems: My devastatingly-effective earthbreaker tank sat out one combat because her armor check penalty wouldn't let her get over the intervening 10-foot wall. There are a ton of ways for a spell caster to out class a Str-build. The non-strength based fighting form only work as well as they do in games like PF because so many of the patrons want them so very badly to be as good or better than strength based fighting. In my opinion, strength builds should be easier and generally more effective at combat than other builds. I added a homebrew improved WF feat to the game which enabled dex to damage and treated it as precision damage. And if the combat starts within the 15 foot reach? I support a limited subset of Pathfinder's rules content. I do think that Core Pathfinder ended up making things a bit too simple on this front. Additional feats include Extend Spell, Merciful Spell, Quicken Spell, toughness, improved initiative, iron will, shake it off, escape route, eschew materials. Take an in-depth look at Pathfinder's fighter and what you can do to make sure you're a solid asset to your group. As Keen stopped stacking with Improved Crit in 3.5, you can and should just take Improved Crit. Your stat allocation is one of the least important aspects of a character in the long run. Having said that. Only a very few concepts can take dex ad nauseum and not suffer for it. Your survivability will also be clearly higher than with rogue/thug. (Enough that Cleave should generally only be the feat tax for Cleaving Finish.). ACKs is a bit different. All-in-all, "too good"? True. You even get the spell Legendary Proportions for a massive boost later in the game. 1. A very straightforward build would be to go fighter all the way. One of the current arguments is that the ease of success of Strength DPS builds is one of the few things keeping them superior to a Dex-build. That's the Fighter, not his stats. You would dump str on a synthesist or non-melee full caster, though. Fighter builds have terrible Will saves, few class skills, and no skill points. I also respectfully disagree with this particular point: if this were the case, MAD characters would suffer a lot less than they do. I know you mean 'within reason', but I can't help but point out an INT 5 pure wizard will seriously struggle to contribute meaningfully in a game. But they usually tend to suffer from very bad saves and this takes them down several notches. Because he's a wizard. And this is before you add in class features or power attack. If you think strength builds are too good, that tells me you and your friends are operating pretty low under the optimisation ceiling of various classes. Decent strength, compound longbow, fire while at range, drop it and whip out a greatsword for closequarters. If I assume that you just meant: He deals more damage than others and doesn't need to invest much, you are right. Yes. How many levels of Thug are truly useful in your opinion? So, just because someone can find the easy path the beast mode doesn't mean you need to break it. I have so many Enlarge Person potions, she can't drink them fast enough! Thats why fighters should take iron will & improved iron will. I'm speaking more in a general range. If you go pure rogue/thug, you'll be stuck with long spears. Builds that meet almost all of the criteria get 1 or two stars. 2. 5E and 3.0 did not favor power attack so heavily, 1 and 2 were problems in 3.0. The sun is a wondrous body. The strength based rogue has these as well but also the sneak attack on top, doesn't he? And while I realize that late game other classes have more options and can do many things a two-hand fighter can never hope to achieve, it does seem to me that strength-based melee characters never seem to struggle much, short of explicitly designed encounters meant to disable or put range between their opponents. Irregular troops usually used the biggest, heaviest, longest weapons they could get. G… Having said that AC is never my goal for having high dex characters as I think initiative or the reflex save is worth more. Heavens based oracle with color spray can outright kill most anything, an optimized shocking grasp can put a martial to shame, fireballs can be flung from well beyond a martials reach etc. and at level 10 the arcane discovery Idealize. This is the easy foil to those builds. But casters are still stronger. I could try other classes but I guess not a single one can do what you describe. Bonus damage in 5E is usually a static modifier so it is the same if you are using a longsword or great sword. Hint: There isn't one. The second is focused on getting a high BAB and four attacks a round. Strength is the primary attribute for this build so add every point except one to the strength stat, since it will add to both attack and damage rolls. Of course you have to dump a bunch of other stuff but you want DPS so here's the DPS. Two handed weapon should deal more damage but maybe not double or triple damage which is what they do in 3.5/PF. 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